"JERSEY'S EVENING PROPAGANDA"
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Monday, 11 February 2013
"Do We Have Access To The Law In Jersey? Do Wookies Live On Endor?"
"We Put These Questions To The Test"
Do Wookies Live on Endor?
There has been much speculation over the years about where Wookies live, just as there has been much speculation about whether or not we have clear, full, and unrestricted access to the law here in Jersey. The answers are below.
There we have it, Wookies "Do Not" live on Endor! They live on Kashyyyk.
So, just how easy was the next question to answer?
Do We Have Access To The Law In Jersey?
This question was a lot harder to answer, and as we also needed proof of our claim, something that the Courts in Jersey never seem to produce when turning us over for a fast buck!
On Wednesday, the 16th of January 2013, we did a posting following the adventures of Deputy Mike Higgins in Cloud Cuckoo Land. This being the vote in the Chamber of Horrors with regard to translating all Jersey laws into a language we could all understand....English.
Bailhache rallied his cronies, doing everything he could to see this proposition from Mike Higgins defeated, and utterly defeated it was.
Below is a small extract from that posting including a little quote from Constable John Gallichan that would guarantee the people of Jersey, clear, full, and unrestricted access to the law.
Another valid point to make is the nonsense that "Constable John Gallichan suggested the Jersey Legal Information Board could provide translations on request instead of forcing all laws to be translated." Just one slight problem there I'm afraid!
Myself and Cyril, on a number of separate occasions, have had contact with Caroline Coleman and Paul Matthews from the Judicial Greffe of Jersey. During those conversations and meetings we both had asked for an English translation of the Loi (1864) réglant la procédure criminelle so as to mount a comprehensive and meaningful defence to our cases. We were told in no uncertain terms that there was "No official, or unofficial translation available to us".
Months later, as it transpired, Cyril received and English translation of that very same law given to him in a bundle from the Attorney General for use in his appeal. Strangely, this translation was dated 2004? So who is pulling who's leg Mr Greffier?
The question we now ask is, was this guarantee from Constable Gallichan even worth the breath he used in coming out with it?
Well, the answer to that is below.
Our man, who is a litigant in person following the sacking of his lawyer for gross negligence, and who is legitimately following his own course in trying to find out the law, went on an exploratory law walkabout. This little quest began, as one would expect, at the Judicial Greffe of the Royal Court.
As we can deduce from the recording, there was a little confusion over what exactly was required, this was however clarified by our man stating that he wanted a copy of the Rules of Procedure. We then hear that he would have to pay for it! Whatever happened to free and complete access to justice?
Our man now goes to Mourier House bookshop for a copy of the Rules of Procedure which he must purchase. The lady at the bookshop didn't have a copy of what our man wanted, and also confirmed that it was not on the Jersey law website. She further stated that they didn't even know of it? Our man is now sent back over to the Judicial Greffe of the Royal Court.
Our man, now back at the Judicial Greffe, has again asked for the Rules of Procedure, the lady he is talking to says this document may not exist, and she is on the phone to the lady who runs the J lib site who is going to come down and talk to our man personally.
Again our man asks for the Rules of Procedure and the lady explains that if it's not on the law site, she won't know anything about it. There is a little confusion between the two of them insofar as what was said by Deputy Higgins which was that the laws must be available to anyone who asks. The lady now tells our man that he is actually looking for the Practice Directions, and says that the Practice Directions are the Rules of Procedure, that's what they are she says.
She then checks to see if there are any documents called Rules of Procedure? She then confirms that they don't have the document. Our man then asks if he can have a copy of the translated Criminal Procedure Rules for cross reference purposes, the lady replies that they don't have them because "No one has successfully translated it, we tried to do it, we asked the board, but the translations that are published are NOT SAFE" ....YOUWHAT!!!
The lady our man is now talking to decides to ring the Law Drafts People, in particular, Pam Stayley. She asks Pam if she knows anything about a document called the Rules of Procedure? After some delay, Pam gets back to the lady stating that they are none the wiser and nobody seems to know? So much for full and complete access to the law.
So after a little more confusion we have now narrowed matters down to the Criminal Procedure, and which is written in Normandy French. The lady tells our man that if he wants a safe translation of this law, he will have to sort that out himself! She then says that "there is something in Jersey French and it has been translated, but it's not reliable". It's the Procedure Criminelle, 1864, chapter 08.740, she also states that "some lawyers do have translations of this, but Advocate Matthews, who's the deputy Judicial Greffe, says it's best to get your own translation because, um, they're not reliable, some of them aren't that reliable and we don't actually have a translation here". She then confirmed the only copy they had was in French, "we haven't got a translation, we don't have one". The lady then tells our man he might ring round a few lawyers, some of the older law firms, just to see if they have a copy. WTF?
So....What in God's name do our readers make of that little episode?
It gets worse!
We now take a look at the Email exchanges that ensued following our mans request for information on the law. Our man is in blue, their girl is in red.
Good afternoon Sue,
I spoke with you yesterday morning with regards to the “Rules of Procedure” , I've just researched it further being the chapter 08.740 which is the “Loi (1864) réglant la procédure criminelle”.
Can you just confirm something with me? , you mentioned to me yesterday the Judiciary don’t supply a translation of any relevant Loi laws because no one has ever successfully translated the “Loi” laws written in Normandy/French.
You also mentioned that you have tried to get it translated by requesting the board to publish a translation.
What I'm a bit confused about is when you then went onto say that “the translation that has been published is not “said”, can you clarify what you meant as I'm a bit confused on that, is there a publish translation that is not said?
Hopefully you can help me as I'm needing to make sense of the laws that the public is governed by.
Subject: RE: Loi Laws Translations
Dear Mr ******
What I said was that any translations in the past have not been ‘safe’. In other words one could not rely on the English translation to interpret that particular law because it might not stand up in a court of law and that’s why we cannot publish a translation. We are looking into translating that law but it won’t be in the near future.
I should just correct you on another point, I think some French laws have been rewritten into English, but it’s usually when the law is being updated – there are a number of laws still in Norman French and we do not have the means or the expertise to translate them.
I hope this clarifies the matter
Sue du Feu Programme & Conference Director,
Jersey Legal Information Board
Subject: RE: Loi Laws Translations
Thank you for the reply Sue,
So as it stands there,there is no safe translation. What confuses me is that lawyers are quoting these laws in actual cases.
So if that is happening , does it not make such prosecution cases, in either prosecution or defence, unsafe? If no one can understand it or successfully describe its meaning?
What actual translations are local lawyers using? And how can anyone understand it if it’s going to be disregarded as being not “safe”?
Sorry to be a pain ,but I'm still very confused as to how these laws are being used by namely prosecution lawyers in Jersey, especially with regards to what they actually mean.
If you could respond to have further clarity , it would be appreciated
Subject: RE: Loi Laws Translations
Jersey lawyers all have to take French exams before they can practice so they do not need translations, they interpret straight from the French. What I’m saying is there is no published translation that we can use to put on the website.
Sue du Feu
There are two phrases in particular that should have every alarm bell in Jersey ringing!
1."What I said was that any translations in the past have not been ‘safe’. In other words one could not rely on the English translation to interpret that particular law because it might not stand up in a court of law and that’s why we cannot publish a translation."
2. "there are a number of laws still in Norman French and we do not have the means or the expertise to translate them."
QUESTION:What is it then, that Wookies and Statutory Law have in common?
ANSWER:Both are totally fictitious and do not exist in the real world!
We would also gratefully acknowledge the help and assistance that these ladies tried so very hard to give to our man, they did the very best they could to accommodate him.
It is quite clear to us that virtually everyone who is not holding a prominent position within the law officers department, and the judicial greffe, is being deliberately kept in the dark about these laws and their real meanings.
"ALSO" A huge thank you to VFC for his assistance with the soundtracks and video editing. "TOP GUY"